BZPRPG News and Discussion

[Ghosthands]

Well yes. But Casanuva isn't going to be sniping with it anytime soon.

 

Also, the firing process is a bit more complicated; once a ball has been loaded into the chamber, the blade is magnetized; how fast depends on how powerful the shot is. Quickly means he has the rifle from Metro 2033's power on the lower charges; slowly, with appropriate background music and shonen speeches/screaming produces something like the Tau railgun. Once the blade is properly magnetized, it is aimed carefully, then Casanuva uses is magnetic elemental power to manipulate the magnetic fields to actually fire the projectile. Then there's the sonic boom, and fire coming out of all the holes in the blade, and the Orange-hot protosteel blade.

 

Having done a quick Google search (because I know nothing about Warhammer) I have done some reading on this 'Tau railgun'. Apparently, in the Warhammer universe, it's a heavy weapon capable of penetrating the toughest vehicle armour, typically mounted on tanks or spaceships. Spaceships. And you think you can have a hand-held weapon that packs the same punch? A 'weapon of mass destruction', in your own words?

 

That is ridiculous on several levels:

1. The energy required would be huge.
2. The recoil would tear your arm off.
3. The materials the sword is made of would have to be incredibly tough, so where did the characters get it?
4. Even if you did somehow deal with those three IC problems, from an OOC point of view the weapon would be highly OP.

I find it unlikely that Nuju would approve something so overpowered—which leads me on to my next point.

 

 

Maybe not in so many words, but yes, Nuju approved the Rail Sword.

 

 

'Not in so many words' seems to imply that the description of the sword given to Nuju for approval did not go into as much detail as Keeper has provided here. That means that some amount of the description Keeper posted above was not staff-approved. I suspect that Keeper did not tell Nuju how powerful he intended for the Rail Sword to be, and that if he had, it would not have been approved. (We will have to wait for Nuju to come online before we can know for sure.)

 

With all that said, I suppose I would be fine with the weapon existing if its power level were drastically reduced from what Keeper has described. The real issue is that Keeper seems to have taken some liberties with the approval system.

[Keeper of Kraata]

Blargh. Too early for this. I'll post the PM conversation, and a fuller defense in a bit; just to say now, referencing the Tau Railgun was a joke; while I know for a fact that a handheld variant exists, it isn't even that powerful. The rail sword can blow up, like, a tree at full power.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Keeper of Kraata

[Nato G]

Best not to exaggerate or embellish in N&D. People have a tendency to take things a little too seriously and overreact. 

[Keeper of Kraata]

Yes, but I have learned my lesson now. And I am sorry.
 
Anyway, the full request PM string:
 

Hey! Eventually I want my character, Casanuva, to commission some advanced weaponry that Casanuva can use with his magnetic powers, and since they probably count as foreign tech, I should clear it with you first. Two items:

The simpler is the Rail Sword. Pretty much a sword, but the blade is split into two prongs, allowing it to be used as a small railgun when he uses a small bit of metal.

Second is what I call the 'Kal Cannon': Basically a large, handheld lightning generator, and Casanuva uses his magnetism to spin up the turbine/enhance the power output so it can actually shoot lightning.

The first one should be okay, but the second one sounds a bit too advanced and powerful for me to approve.

Wasn't there a monorail set up at one point? It's basically your average steampunk lightning gun.

Yeah, but I'm loath to grant your Toa of Magnetism a device that gives him some power over a second element.

True, true. I am exploiting the laws of electromagnetism already.

 
For fun and profit. Well, fun. Anyway, in all it's stump-killing glory, I see the rail sword lying between two extremes:

 

Real railgun!

 

Haha, no. On top of using what looks like some sort of special dart ammo (when Casanuva is using something more akin to a musket ball), its much bigger. This is, however, where I got the explosion idea for firing.

 

The humble Vold Driver/Hellbreath. Where would my stealth runs be without you?

 

To more directly answer your statements, in light of my clarifications:

 

1) moving things by magnetism requires a similarly insane amount of magnetic power.

 

2) True, recoil would be an issue that I kind of have glossed over. I'm just going to say 'Pakari' and call it a day.

 

3) Protosteel, son!* As for where the smith got it, you can ask his player. I suspect a Fe-Toa.

 

And yes, if by 'take liberties with the approval system' you mean 'work out the specifics', then yes, you got me.

 

*Since sarcasm in N&D has recently gotten me burned, this was a reference to the Metal Gear 'Nanomachines, son!' meme.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Keeper of Kraata

[Nato G]

 I'm just going to say 'Pakari' and call it a day.

 

That's some logic I can get behind. 

 

 

 

 Protosteel, son! As for where the smith got it, you can ask his player. I suspect a Fe-Toa.

 

I imagine he would have gotten it from the same magical place every other blacksmith in this game gets their protosteel. It's only now that you've gone and made something more creative than usual with that metal that people suddenly seem to have a problem with where the smiths are getting it from. 

Edited December 30, 2014 by Roman Torchwick

[Timageness]

@Roman: The documentation part was me having a bit of fun, but Mr. House made it very clear that Zenithex shouldn't to try to kill Legacy members or anyone in Ko-Koro for that matter for pragmatic reasons (which is why I haven't been posting as him lately, since he's effectively benched while in the city). That one refugee in his opening post apparently didn't count, since the battle was technically still going on at the time.

I'm assuming that Larikon and Echelon's meeting is more about the finer details of the alliance, such as dividing the spoils of war and making sure that they continue to work better as a singular unit, than it is about "hey, let's try not to kill each other," since that part is kind of common sense and has probably already been hashed out.

@Rail Sword Topic: Haven't played Warhammer, but I have spent many hours with both MGS2 and MGS4. While I was able to acknowledge the joke upon Ghosthands' explanation of that particular weapon, essentially it would fire like that, but just at a much smaller scale. The amount of damage would also be directly tied in with both the weapon's size and the size of the ammo. True, a handheld railgun could theoretically take down trees, however, since the MGS series on the whole tends to create their tech from a rather practical standpoint, their version of the gun was nearly the length of someone in their late teens and it fired off rounds longer than the average human head.

Comparing this to Cassanuva's sword, which I'm assuming is about half to two-thirds the size of said weapon representation, that fires off ball bearings powered by his weaker than normal elemental control (because we're not at the same level as canon Toa are), he'd probably have something more along the lines of an extremely fast musket ball. Sure, it could punch through armor due to its thinness, but I can't see it putting a dent in a fully grown tree, much less toppling one.

[Keeper of Kraata]

Ah! Managed to find Casanuva's original implementation of his technique:

 

IC: The nui-kopen snarled and turned. It's chitinous wings buzzed and twitched. Casanuva shut one eye, aiming down his forearm. He adjusted the aim an imperceptible few degrees. Crackles of electricity played between the toa's fingers, from the intense power being concentrated.

 

Then he released.

 

There was a bang, as the projectile broke the sound barrier, and a flash of fire as the friction ignited the air around it; the slug entered the wasp in one of its multi-faceted eyes, and passed through the bulk of its body before exploding out its flank, splattering the walls with ichor. the projectile slammed several inches into the wall, creating a lattice of cracks in the stone. Detritus fell from the ceiling as it shuddered, but stopped after a few moments.

 

Rather than his victory, the first thing that Casanuva noticed was that his hand was now on fire.

 

"Ah! AAAAGH!"

 

I should note that the electricity playing between his fingers might not be accurate, and I just used it as a secondary effect. Like how a fireball would have steam from vapor in the air condensing and re-vaporizing. It couldn't actually be used to any real effect, as per Nuju's statement.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Keeper of Kraata

[Nato G]

 

 

 I'm assuming that Larikon and Echelon's meeting is more about the finer details of the alliance, such as dividing the spoils of war and making sure that they continue to work better as a singular unit, than it is about "hey, let's try not to kill each other," since that part is kind of common sense and has probably already been hashed out. 

 

Well... the very first thing Larikon brought up was sharing The Sanctum and making it a place of religious neutrality. That's the point where Dayeth (a very devoted Makuta worshipper) was nearly overcome by an insatiable urge to replace Larikon's face with a smoking crater...

[Timageness]

@Roman: Well, yeah, but you also have to see it from the Brotherhood's point of view; they have an entirely different religion, and forcing them to discuss matters concerning the truce in a place that's full of Makuta-worshipping is bound to put them a little on edge. It also kind of says that their role in the alliance isn't as important as Legacy's is, which is exactly the thing you don't want to appear to be saying when trying to maintain an alliance with another group of psychopaths.

@Keeper: Okay, this sounds accurate, but the shape of the ammo would also hinder it's piercing effectiveness, since modern-day rounds are tipped instead of spherical. The thickness of the object being hit also needs to be taken into account as well; there's a difference between going through steel (or in our characters' case, Protosteel) thick enough for armor and a tree covered in bark with a diameter of two or three feet.

Edited December 30, 2014 by timageness411

[Keeper of Kraata]

True, the effects would not be as spectacular if used on a meatsack target; see above 'two holes and a whole lotta guts' thing. And it was still intact enough to be raised as a zombie... I'm banking on the triumph of thrust over aerodynamics. And who the karz is walking around in protosteel armor?

[Nuju Metru]

KoK, this is what you said in that PM thread:

 

 

The simpler is the Rail Sword. Pretty much a sword, but the blade is split into two prongs, allowing it to be used as a small railgun when he uses a small bit of metal.

 

Notice how you used the word "small" twice in the proposal you sent... I approved a "small railgun." Maybe I'm not familiar enough with railguns (which is likely; I'm not a gun enthusiast, I don't play shooter games, I'm not familiar with Warhammer, whatever, sue me), but I imagined this "small railgun" having the strength of ma-aybe a low-powered firearm, tops. I imagined it as just a channel for Casanuva's preexisting magnetism powers, a glorified pressing together of two like magnets with enough induced opposing magnetism (and the "rails" of the sword to guide this "small bit of metal") to make the smaller magnet, the "small bit of metal," a feasible projectile. Shows how much I know about science (this is why I have Ghostie around).

 

If I totally don't understand railguns, and the above description doesn't make sense, I'm sorry; but that was how I understood what I was approving. I'm also sorry that I didn't more clearly articulate what I was approving, KoK, because we seem to have been on different wavelengths about the weapon. But from your original description, I wouldn't have thought much - or thought much thought was needed - about this Rail Sword you asked for. You described it as "simple," as "pretty much a sword." Call me overly trusting, but I took your understatement of the Rail Sword at face value; based on your brief description of it, I assumed that this actually would be a "simple" and "pretty-much-[just]-a-sword" weapon. I guess I'll have to be less naive in future approvals.

 

Ghostie's right in assuming that the description you sent me for approval doesn't align with the description of the weapon you've been using IC; that's what bugs me here. I feel like you've taken advantage of my original approval. It isn't in your rights as a player to exploit our/my misunderstandings of what'd been approved to your empowerment. A sonic-speed, ultra-strong railgun (that somehow also functions impeccably as a sword - I didn't even think about the physics of that part!) powered by a Toa's magnetism alone? That's a bit, er, a lot too much.

 

I usually tell people who get custom powers or tech approved to "enjoy responsibly." You've enjoyed irresponsibly. Expect the railgun sword to be taken away soon.

[Tea-rex]

So, now would not be a good time to announce my character's weapon of choice as a flamethrower laser rifle with magnifying glass that can shoot at 0.1 times per second?

[Nuju Metru]

So, now would not be a good time to announce my character's weapon of choice as a flamethrower laser rifle with magnifying glass that can shoot at 0.1 times per second?

 

Unless you want now to be a good time for me to announce your character's debilitating third-degree laser/flame/magnifying-glass-catching-sun burns that he accidentally self-inflicted every 0.1 second for a good few minutes... nah, I think you wanna hold off on that.

[Banana Gunz]

 

So, now would not be a good time to announce my character's weapon of choice as a flamethrower laser rifle with magnifying glass that can shoot at 0.1 times per second?

 

Unless you want now to be a good time for me to announce your character's debilitating third-degree laser/flame/magnifying-glass-catching-sun burns that he accidentally self-inflicted every 0.1 second for a good few minutes... nah, I think you wanna hold off on that.

 

 

Oo, that's gotta hurt...

[Razgriz]

Suck up a little less blatantly please it's uncouth

[Banana Gunz]

Aw, I'm insulted. I would hope that my classy high brow sophistication would be more obviously clear.

[Simulacrum]

I'd like to get you on a slow boat to China

all by myself, alone

 

First new character in a very long time; kind of excited, to be honest.

[IcarusBen]

Uh-oh....

 

Somebody got in trouble! Somebody got in trouble!

 

In all seriousness, I'll have to (once again) go against the mod's here. When I say "railgun," what's the first thing that comes to mind?

 

For me, at least, what comes to mind is a very, very VERY big kaboom.

 

Even a small railgun, logically speaking, is a powerful weapon. Heck, the sword even has a few nice little drawbacks to it (I'm assuming that catching your hand on fire is a drawback.) But, if you give someone a railgun, but instead give them the power of a small firearm, they aren't going to like it. People think of railguns as powerful weapons, so when they request a weapon of the sort, they have high expectations.

[Banana Gunz]

Uh-oh....

 

Somebody got in trouble! Somebody got in trouble!

 

In all seriousness, I'll have to (once again) go against the mod's here. When I say "railgun," what's the first thing that comes to mind?

 

For me, at least, what comes to mind is a very, very VERY big kaboom.

 

Even a small railgun, logically speaking, is a powerful weapon. Heck, the sword even has a few nice little drawbacks to it (I'm assuming that catching your hand on fire is a drawback.) But, if you give someone a railgun, but instead give them the power of a small firearm, they aren't going to like it. People think of railguns as powerful weapons, so when they request a weapon of the sort, they have high expectations.

 

Well it's not really the staff's faults. Nuju, as he's mentioned, isn't exactly an expert on rail guns so the capability of the weapon wasn't what he expected when he approved it. Sure it's what a rail gun does, but it's not what was deemed a fair weapon for the game.

[Razgriz]

Well you should at least brush up a bit on whatever someone's trying to get you to approve so things like that don't happen

 

Just sayin

[Krayzikk]

Ultimately it is the duty of the petitioner to make clear what it is that they want. A rail gun is something with a wide range of portrayals in various fictions and real world sciences, even if you are familiar with them, and then adding in a Toa of Magnetism's range of abilities complicates things further. And that's before we get into the use of the adjective "small".

 

In other words, specificity in a request is important.

[Nuju Metru]

Well you should at least brush up a bit on whatever someone's trying to get you to approve so things like that don't happen

 

Just sayin

 

[Razgriz]

Now if only you'd learn about everything else

And finally, a message from our favorite Skeleton disgruntled away-game guy.

"If it were up to me, that railgun would have never seen the light of day--because Nooj is right and he knows nothing about railguns. It was taken as gospel because he's head GM and no one can overrule it. It's near-abuse of the approval system and it raises the important point that you should ALWAYS, ALWAYS check with me, Krayz, or Ghosthands if you really want something. It saves us pissing contests and saves you a headache if the other staff overrule an approval.

See you Friday. XOXO.

-Tyler"

And that's on approvals in general. 

The Herald has Spoken.

[Hitoshura]

I feel likr you could just stick to what we originally have...bur wheres the fun in that?

[Relapse]

By now I imagine you all realize I tend to slip away often and for long periods of time, but is anyone open for interaction?

[The UltimoScorp]

Got a merchant In Ko if your looking for cool native tech.

[Keeper of Kraata]

Ugh. I have a guest for six hours, and I come back to this ulcer-inducing mess. Well, Kray, I responded to your delegated PM, with a potential fix.

[Nato G]

Uh-oh....

 

Somebody got in trouble! Somebody got in trouble!

 

 

Don't get too hyped up about it. It happens to everyone sooner or later. You'll have your turn soon enough. 

[Krayzikk]

By now I imagine you all realize I tend to slip away often and for long periods of time, but is anyone open for interaction?

 

oh hey kni

[25K Now!]

Oh hey KNIbro

[sunflower]

Kni is that really you?

 

 

 

 

Someone get the duct tape and nails.

 

 

quick

[Franco]

By now I imagine you all realize I tend to slip away often and for long periods of time, but is anyone open for interaction?

Sulov came back to Onu-Koro. Meanwhile, Kol's quest ended, so he's back as well.

[Snelly]

By now I imagine you all realize I tend to slip away often and for long periods of time, but is anyone open for interaction?

 

For you? Anytime, anywhere bby. :3

Edited December 31, 2014 by Skitty

[Some Random Phrase]

Okay, I'm going to rejoin the BZRPG for the 3rd time. Any suggestions?

[25K Now!]

Find interaction.

[Some Random Phrase]

Okay. I shall try. By the way, are there any plots that I should be aware of?

[Keeper of Kraata]

Ko-Koro is now a magical winter wonderland. It is Certainly Not a fortress of villainy conquered by an alliance of Evil.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Keeper of Kraata

[Razgriz]

By now I imagine you all realize I tend to slip away often and for long periods of time, but is anyone open for interaction?

Oh you're nothin

[Nato G]

Ko-Koro is now a magical winter wonderland. It is Certainly Not a fortress of villainy conquered by an alliance of Evil.

 

*slow claps* Very convincing.

[Not Quite Dead]

I vanished for 6 years, beat that.